Post-High School Education Outcomes for Level Five Gifted (Profoundly Gifted)
Profoundly gifted students are the least likely to get their needs met in our school systems, public or private.
How much does previous background and “good fit” affect the most highly intelligent among us? What are their options and choices by the time they finish high school and go on for post-secondary education and enter their careers? It matters hugely! There are so many who never get much of a chance.
Where any individual fits in his or her setting or environment depends, to a significant extent, on who else is there. That’s called the relativity of intelligence, of high giftedness. Having — or not having — access to true peers with whom they can share their ideas and easily understand each other can be a detriment to their progress. It can lead to other long-term issues, as well, so the goal is to help readers here see what some of these less-than-ideal outcomes are for the different Levels of Gifted.
We Continue with Level Five: The Outliers
People in the Level Five range, as with those in the Level Four range, are also what I call the Outliers. As I wrote in earlier posts on this topic, I chose the term “conventionally gifted” to describe the first three Levels because most teachers and most students have had such gifted students in their classes. The Outliers of Levels Four and Five are usually the ones who teachers remember forever as being the smartest student they ever experienced. But because so many are never specifically identified or cooperative in school, most people don’t “see” the many of the most intelligent among us. Sometimes we probably know they’re smart or nerdy or weird or different, but we don’t get to know them.
Post-High School Education and “Good Fit”
The idea is that a “good fit” extends past the regular school years in our lives. With the background on what a good post-high school fit looks like, we can continue to explore what really happens for any cross-section of gifted people — not just the ones in this study — and some typical, real, and recurring reasons behind the school and educational choices different people of similar abilities make. And please remember, someone, including you, does not need to have been identified as gifted or told by some authority figure that they are gifted. When you read my material, you will figure yourself out as far as that goes.
One purpose of this post is to demonstrate that it is the social-emotional — the sense of well-being — plus the reveling-or-not in the challenge and wonder of engaging, comprehensive learning and work that give our lives meaning.
Reader Refresher Course
How Smart or Advanced Are People in Each Level of Gifted?
People within each Level of Gifted are capable of learning more than the typical, or average, or majority learners during the K-12 school years when the conditions are good for them. How much more?
How rapidly could the child progress through the academics of grades K-6 lessons and objectives?
Level One (moderately gifted) ~ 4 years (or about 2/3 of the standard time)
Level Two (highly gifted) ~ about 3 years (or about ½ the standard time)
Level Three (exceptionally gifted) ~ 2 years (or about 1/3 the standard time)
Level 4 (exceptionally to profoundly gifted) ~ 1–2 years or less (or about 1/6 the standard time) particularly in their strength areas
Level Five (profoundly gifted) ~ less than 1 year
What is the Estimated Frequency of Level Five Students in their School Settings?
Fewer Level Fives stay in a regular school setting throughout their school years. As many as one to three are in a typical mixed-ability Type II school; and you will see more in high socioeconomic Type III schools. But I’m not talking about grade level her; I’m talking about the whole school. Honestly, it’s simply hard to know or quantify, and you will get a sense of why that is when you read some of the stories here.
How can years of sitting through inappropriate schooling affect people long-term?
“Being ahead” is generally about the gifted child’s ability to understand and maintain the learning before they officially start any formal, and sometimes even before informal, schooling. When the parents of gifted children describe their children as being like sponges who simply absorb everything, this is why their children are ahead when the regular school years start. They start learning and using what they learned much younger than typical children, and that means they’ve already experienced enough repetitions to master many topics. How much more than typical depends on their Level and profile of intelligence, but it also has something to do with their access to toys and books and other people and walks around the neighborhood and trips to the park. In order to “show their stuff” they usually need a certain lack of any overwhelming trauma in their lives, too. Crazy, chaotic families are a form of trauma. We still lack a mental health safety net for families in the United States and probably elsewhere.
The K-12 path (kindergarten through grade 12 school years) is strongly related — and usually impacts — the post-high school education and career choice options and outcomes for most study participants. I’ve already posted about the K-12 years themselves. All of those 5 pieces (blog posts) start with the same title: Post-High School Education Outcomes.
To assure the anonymity of participants, rather than identify the post-high school institution by name, I created tables that use a number to indicate how competitive it is as far as the percentage of applicants who apply compared to those who are accepted. 1 means most competitive/ elite and 5 means it’s something other than regular college or university.
US News and College Simply ratings are used to establish the selectivity factor and the standardized ACT/SAT score ranges. The main point to this is to give us a metric for whether each study participant found a way to attend an institution of post-secondary learning that would likely have true peers and appropriate coursework depth and pacing for their intellectual ability level. And as readers may have noticed, doing away with such standardized testing didn’t help the elite institutions select students who had the ability to handle their curriculum and intellectual expectations.[1] I have known for a long time that grades are a poor predictor of college or life success.[2]
It is likely a good fit when the student’s ACT/SAT score is not too high above or below that of the range posted by the institution as representing the average student who matriculates there.
In this study group, there is no one who attended a school that was above their ability to do well. There are other factors that can make some post-high school institutions a poor fit, however, especially if they don’t have the mentoring or support they need to adapt to a place that actually probably could be a good fit.
Many, however, did get their post-high school training and education in places and institutions — not the traditional college path — that were more of the same poor fit they experienced during their earlier school years. As they reached adulthood, many of the study subjects found themselves again involved in institutions or on paths that were not a good fit for them emotionally, socially, academically, or competitively.
In this series of post-secondary results and fit, I add slightly expanded tables that include summary results of what each young person experienced (Unsatisfactory, Acceptable, Satisfactory, and Excellent) during their kindergarten through high school years. I’ve added categories to the Levels’ tables connected to their post-secondary environments and choices. The intention is to illustrate that a poor school fit can have repercussions well beyond one’s grade school years because it continues to affect the self-concept, goals, ability to compete or keep up, and a sense of belonging — fitting in — of the individuals.
As you read through the tables in each post about post-secondary life and training and the Levels of Gifted study subjects, consider that each table represents a Level of Giftedness that indicates, within it, a similar range of abilities among the study participants. Readers will see that an earlier “good fit” generally leads to later good fits and options, options that support the development of their talents, careers, social, and emotional needs. Conversely, it becomes clear that lack of an early “good fit” can have negative repercussions far into the future of people who are every bit as capable as those gifted students whose needs were met. Although you may have only looked at the K-12th grade education environment fit so far, readers can see here that subsequent training options and choices are related to the book subjects’ earlier experiences.
Why This Matters
Of the seven Level Five people for whom I had some information, there are two for whom there are no available college entrance examination scores. Although scores are generally proxies for ability level, we can still estimate the appropriate Level when additional information from the 5 Levels of Gifted book and other outcome information are available. The Level’s placement continues to be an amalgam of factors that include scores, behaviors, interests, attitudes, goals, accomplishments (not awards, but what the person can do), and other “ways of being” that add up to a profile of one’s abilities.
A quick look at the Level Five table shows us that, even within this small group, every kind of outcome is represented. One did not go to post-secondary at all; one had an Unsatisfactory fit and experience; another had a mediocre experience in contrast to his amazing ability level; and four had Excellent fits but, as this section reveals, notably different experiences in the ages when they experienced higher-level education and in their career paths. Although some of the Level Three and Four subjects took college entrance exams earlier than the typical ages of 16 and 17 (junior and senior years of high school), it was not noted in those tables unless no junior and senior year scores were available. And the same circumstances of grade-skipping were present in earlier Levels sections and not always mentioned except in the narrative, but it is so common in the Level Five group that it is presented within the table because it correlates with the Excellent label’s use for a Tier 2 institution when the student is still a preteen. Finally, many of the following descriptions are kept deliberately vague so as to honor the promise of anonymity to the subjects.
The Level Five Subjects
Colin Richards
Colin’s’ story is tragic in that he wanted only to get away from his family and home when he finished the British equivalent of high school. Colin has always been a highly sensitive and emotional person whose parents — and their parenting style — were not aligned with his sensitivity or stated inclinations. Colin was clinically diagnosed in his twenties as “possibly” having bipolar disorder, a diagnosis his mother preferred to other explanations about what was going wrong for her son. Prior to his diagnosis, Colin traveled alone to many parts of the United States and decided he wanted to be a singer and entertainer. He changed his name and ultimately concluded that he is a “she,” and then several years later, neither a he or a she. This, Colin explained, is not about sexuality but “personhood.” Colin’s viewpoints about who she is did not sit well with her parents, and during all this emotional upheaval, Colin’s mother fell ill from a rare disease and died within less than a year. After half a dozen years away from her family, Colin came home and was committed to a mental health institution and learned to feel safe and healthy there. The last interaction with Colin for this book study was about four years ago and she said she would like to go back to school someday but was not sure how to go about it. Efforts to reconnect with her have been unsuccessful to date. Most medical and educational expenses are covered by the state in Great Britain, and even though Colin’s father moved back to the States after his wife died, Colin is still in Great Britain.
Ross Oliver
Ross attended a Tier 4 post-secondary institution, one of the branch schools of a Tier 2 university, and he earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science. Ross finished high school at age 16 and had already completed two years of post-secondary options at this same Tier 4 institution. He never experienced a good fit for himself and when first contacted for this book, he hesitated to participate. I told him that now that he is an adult, I could directly share his test results from when he was a young child. He said, “Send it. It may be the tip of the iceberg that I’ve been trying to decipher my whole life.”
In his first year of college, Ross was put on academic probation because he “was so bad with study skills and turning in assignments.” He worked as a telemarketer “as a way to do penance until I was readmitted.” After finishing college, Ross worked at a rural location for a grocery chain.
At [a store where] it was so clear no one wanted to be there. So unpleasant. I was paid about $20,000 below the going rate, but because I was stuck in [a small town in a mostly rural state] at that point, I was more or less forced to accept it. The bosses were flauntingly rich. Rolls-Royces, expensive vacations, and they had an outrageously outdated [computer] program platform.
Ross eventually moved to a major midwestern metropolitan area to work at an organization he knew about and wanted to work for them before they even knew who he was. He knew what they wanted and programmed what he knew they would want, and he was right. “They actually flew me in for an interview. I got the job!” After two years, Ross moved on to a job he enjoyed as a web application developer. In his late twenties during our last interaction, single, and fully self-supporting, Ross lived in an apartment on his own. He paid for his own post-secondary expenses by working throughout his post-secondary education years. And because he attended satellite community post-secondary schools, they were affordable but otherwise not the best fit for him.
Jacob Jones
Jacob entered a Tier 2 college at age 15 and earned his degree in the classics. He described his experience this way:
I think [college] was a great place but I don’t think it was a great place for me. I graduated young, National Merit Scholar, grad from high school at 15, and went to college right away. I had full ride offers for scholarships from a number of great schools for engineering. It really wasn’t what I needed at the time. I don’t regret learning what I did. I loved the professors in the Classics Department. From a practical perspective, it wasn’t a great place for me. I wish I could have taken a couple years off to really see what I wanted. I would have taken electronic engineering, allowed me to stretch. I’m pretty seriously considering going back to graduate school.
In response to a later question about college affordability, Jacob said:
I received a number of scholarship offers, Merit Scholar — to out-of-state schools — all in engineering. Due to my age of only 15, my parents weren’t comfortable letting me go that far. I went to an in-state small college and got some scholarships and financial aid. My family had very little ability to pay for us to go. The one thing I would change is that going to college so young was really not right for me. And going to the school I went to really wasn’t the right thing for me. There was a collection of people who wanted me to go right away and now I don’t think it was really where I needed to be. I spent four years and I was fairly unhappy the whole time. My parents divorced, my dogs died, and my father was sick. All during those four years.
While in his early thirties, Jacob worked in the field of information technology services, was with a long-term partner with whom he shared an apartment, and he had paid off his school debt within eight years. He said he could have done it sooner but was “not too intentional” with his money after college.
Rick Arnesen
Rick attended a Tier 1 university where he earned a BS in Physics with a minor focus in history. Upon graduating, he knew math and astrophysics held strong interest for him — his thesis was in the field of astrophysics — but was not sure what his next steps should be. He decided not to continue with graduate school at first (even though the institution offered him a full ride to continue in physics), and instead spent a year seeing if more acting, or something else, would work for him. He took on several different political/governmental roles that incidentally exposed him to mentors and true peer friendships. And because his role included being a policy analyst and writer, he decided to apply to law school. He deferred his enrollment because things were going so well in his working life that he wanted to stay a little longer.
Rick attended a Tier 1 institution for his JD. After a little more than a year with a large corporate law firm, a friend suggested he look at academia because the hours are better for exploring independent projects and for someone with a family. He is now a professor at a law school and has time for other projects, including family time. Due to his acting career earnings, Rick finished his educational programs with no student debt.
Victor Schultz
Victor completed a BS in Physics & Astrophysics at a Tier 2 school shortly before he turned eighteen. That was certainly a good fit because he was four years younger than the typical student there and it was close to his home with his parents. Much of the cost was paid by the post-secondary options available in his state. He moved on to complete a PhD in Planetary Science at a Tier 1 institution and spent some time at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory as a graduate student (a common place for physics graduate students to take some of their training). Being in a Tier 1 institution instead of a less competitive, less selective school meant that his professors and advisers knew how to recommend different options to him. Victor has had numerous fellowships, grants, and other opportunities so that he can continue his post-doctoral research and hold down two stimulating and well-paying roles as a part of it all. At the time of the interview, Victor was in his early thirties and said he met his wife while both were students. They have one child and no student debt.
Jon Crocker
Jon finished a four-year undergraduate degree at a Tier 2 university by the time he was thirteen. He earned a BS in Mathematics and Computer Science. When asked how he would rate the early college experience for himself, he wrote:
It’s difficult because relative to age-10 peers, full-time college was surely Excellent, but relative to college-level peers, the university was at best Satisfactory. Altogether, I guess Satisfactory-Excellent seems right — probably closer to Excellent; I really shan’t complain.
Still a child after finishing his bachelor's degree, going on to more schooling rather than employment was a choice several of the book study participants made. Jon earned a Master of Science degree in Media Technology at a Tier 1 institution. Jon participated in numerous activities at this time, including Debate Team, an a cappella choir, Graduate Student Council, and a specialized Drum Ensemble.
During our final interview, when he was in his late twenties, Jon had worked for some major corporations, some start-ups (including one he designed), and enrolled in PhD programs at two more Tier 1 universities and left both without graduating. Part of the reason he moves on so quickly might be related to how quickly he solves the problem that needed solving, shows others how to keep it going, and then goes off to another intellectual adventure. At last interview when Jon was in his upper twenties, he continued to do research and work in arenas that include neuroscience, artificial intelligence, networks and computing systems, neurotechnology, biophysics, system architecture, and programming language theory. Jon is married and he and his wife have deliberately left the expensive, noisy life of big cities as they “are keen advocates of walkability.” They have no student debt and have started a family.
Michael Cortez
Michael finished high school by age fifteen and started university that same year at a Tier 1 institution. He earned a BS in Computer Science and Mathematics and wrote his thesis on algebraic graph theory. He was recruited as chief architect for a start-up company during his senior year when he was eighteen years old. The founders, who were several years ahead of him at the university, recognized his talent and Michael was instrumental in the creation of a program that quickly did what they wanted it to do. The business sold for a handsome profit and Michael, who was early into the company, got a significant amount. At last interview when he was in his mid-twenties, he had turned his attention to using these same talents in the health care realm of business, as he was actively searching for what needs to be done to make the world function better. At that time, too, Michael was in a long-term relationship, fully self-supporting, and had no student debt.
Level Five Summary
It is important for readers to appreciate that such opportunities, the ones Victor, Jon, and Michael experienced, for example, exist. But if you do not know ahead of time about different opportunities, you might not even know how to search them out. And not every opportunity will suit or appeal to every exceptionally or profoundly gifted young person — or their parents — as well as their educational path fit these last three students. Are Victor, Jon, and Michael exceptional? Of course. But so are many others in this study group. Everyone in Levels Four and Five — plus many from Level Three — are more than potentially eligible, capable recipients for such opportunities.
References and Resources
The details of this post are part of a longitudinal study and can be found in Chapter 5 of Ruf, D. (2023). The 5 Levels of Gifted Children Grown Up: What They Tell Us, 2023. Available on Barnes & Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-5-levels-of-gifted-children-grown-up-phd-deborah-l-ruf/1143719859?ean=9798988323709 and Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Levels-Gifted-Children-Grown-Up/dp/B0C9SHFRLH
[1] See this search result for more information about using the SAT and ACT: https://www.google.com/search?q=the+SAt+and+ACT+are+being+reinstated&oq=the+SAt+and+ACT+are+being+reinstated&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigAdIBCTE4NTMzajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
[2] One source that may interest readers: Dr. Fred Zhang of PrepScholar explains the relationship to IQ of results on ACT and SAT tests https:// blog.prepscholar.com/act-vs-sat-in-iq-intelligence.
[3] An elite university is The term “Elite” refers to one category of the ratio of how many students are accepted compared to how many people applied to an institution. This is also commonly referred to as the “competitive” factor — how “competitive” it is to gain entrance.
[4] For a definition of executive function skills see https://childmind.org/topics/concerns/executive-function/